Food protien level

More
19 May 2017 20:39 #1 by robert
robert created the topic: Food protien level
Just wondering what type of food has the least afect on water quality . If you feed a high protien food do you get less waste and there fore better water quality . Or it it just down to the amount of any food you feed, more food more waste?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 May 2017 10:01 #2 by Bill
Bill replied the topic: Food protien level
I'm no scientist, but I would reckon, at a guess, that it would be like in most animals including us. The amount of activity may not affect the amount of waste but it's content. The more the fish are doing and living as actively as normal - for the species - the more it will utilise from the food. Breeding etc. would have the effect of using up proteins, minerals etc. resulting in less rich (for want of a better word) waste. If for example you were to keep fish from fast moving water in a tank with very little water movement you would end up with obese fish, the result would be less efficient use of the food and more of that goodness just passing through the fish unused. This could well cause higher pollution in the water. Some fish will eat less when protein etc. levels are high, if they don't need it, and uneaten food will cause higher levels of pollution.
Perhaps someone with more experience can correct me or confirm or add to it? It's a very good question because I suspect that a few people actually choose food on it's protein level rather than what is best for that fish.
Bill

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 May 2017 18:51 #3 by igmillichip
igmillichip replied the topic: Food protien level
To answer the first line of the question.............. the food with no biochemical value would give least waste.

Apart from the proteins that are eaten by the fish, you also have to consider those that are not eaten by the fish..........and form an alternative route to waste products (eg ammonia, hydrogen sulphide and many more).

Dietary proteins are not stored by fish; the amino acids from the breakdown of proteins are not stored by the fish.

Hence, if you have too much then that is waste that needs to be got rid of.......... enter the catabolic products of amino acids such as ammonia, urea, or uric acid (depending on species of fish).
They are not only the only products of amino acid metabolism btw.

Also, if the diet is deficient in certain amino acids then protein building cannot take place, and so that places another problems on waste amino acids (eg even a low protein diet becomes wasteful).

If a fish is being active or utilising amino acids (from the dietary proteins) to make proteins then that, in itself, is going to produce various forms of waste.

This is actually an enormous topic.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 May 2017 03:58 #4 by robert
robert replied the topic: Food protien level
Hi Ian , so am i better feeding a high or lower protien food

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 May 2017 12:14 #5 by igmillichip
igmillichip replied the topic: Food protien level

robert wrote: Hi Ian , so am i better feeding a high or lower protien food


There is no single answer to that.

It depends on which species of fish; what the actual protein is; what are the other ingredients; the age of the fish; the sex of the fish (to an extent).

I favour "little and often" anyway; and, despite having system for reducing the need for frequent water changes, I also favour good quality water changes.

Now, take this analogy to get an idea of the uselessness of % protein and high vs low protein claims:
I have some food for my growing kids.
I have some % nutritional analysis done on the food for protein:
Food A is 9% Protein;
Food B is 4% Protein;
Food C is 26% Protein
Food D is 20% Protein

Which is the worst food for my growing kids ?
[that is easy to determine.......but you might be suprised........ but deciding which is the best is a little more complex]

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 May 2017 12:37 #6 by robert
robert replied the topic: Food protien level
Thanks Ian i see your point , and i learnt something today , i to tend to feed little and often seeeing that i use auto feeders on my two biggest tanks . However i still think i over feed , when i pass the tanks all the fish rise to the top and being a softie i think they must be hungry so give them a bit of food . The same goes for the pond once you go into the garden . Now heres a funny thing , the koi in the pond have been feeding on a new 42% protein koi food pellet designed for koi , l just felt they werent feeding great , so yesterday i feed some Aldi pond food sticks 28% protien and i got a real feeding frenzy , they certainly appear to prefer the cheap low protien food . Any idea why or is it just down to taste? Robert

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 May 2017 13:30 #7 by igmillichip
igmillichip replied the topic: Food protien level
Not only does overfeeding of protein in one go mean more direct solid waste and potential production of ammonia, but overfeeding in one go will also increase the chance of uneaten food being subject to infestation by fungi.
You really don't want your fish to eat aflotoxins from eating food infested with fungi (and that can take less than an hour to be a problem).

Fish don't read the label as to what is good for them................ just like kids don't read that a bag of American Hard Gums is not as healthy as a nice balanced dinner of Atlantic Salmon, potatoes and veg.

The low protein may well be better for your fish and has things that fish love to eat; on the otherhand, it may be crap quality yet has taste enhancers.

Take my analogy in the previous post...........

What you wouldn't have know from the info I gave you is that Food A ( 9 % protein) is the worst.............why?
Food D (20%) is Fresh Atlantic Cod eaten on its own;
Food C (26%) is Chicken Breast eaten on its own;
Food B (4%) is Fresh Baked Atlantic Cod with plenty of vegs, boiled spuds, and a good few glasses of water to go with it; and
Food A (9 % protein) is American Hard Gums made with pig gelatine (but with loads of juicy flavours).

There...................goes to show what % protein means and that it can be most misleading.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 May 2017 14:22 #8 by robert
robert replied the topic: Food protien level
Thanka Ian learnt a lot today . Robert

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.126 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum