planning permission granted

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02 Apr 2016 13:44 #1 by robert (robert carter)
Well just got the ok from herself to put in my third tank , going into the alcove in the front room ,the 350 tropical is in the other alcove , so looking to try and match the other tank 4feet by2ft deep on a beech cabinet . Am going cold water this time ,so no heaters ,plants or co2 . Will just hard scape it with wood and rock , not sure about lighting might go open top this time . On filtration was thinking of going two external cristal profits 1500e or even the 1900e . Will be stocking very high grade small koi to grow on for my pond . Definatly will be overstocked as are my other tanks and pond . Will use biohome media in one of the filters . Now that I have aired my ideas what do the forum members think , where is the best place to get a tank, already got a price from Bart 650 for tank and cabinet , any idea how long he takes to build the tank and presumably his price don't include top . Let's have your thoughts lads please

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02 Apr 2016 14:05 #2 by Jonlate (Jon Late)
Get Bart to drill it, and put in a sump!
No leaky filters, easier to clean, easy to do waste changes, and loads more filtration can go in.
I would imagine that would be cheaper than the two filters as well, and can hold more water, so you won't be as over stocked.
You asked, I answered.
Anyway aren't you on holiday, or are you someone who can't relax and are on the beach with your iPhone, checking in with your fish via webcam!!

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02 Apr 2016 15:01 #3 by robert (robert carter)
Hi jonate , no nothing about sumps so a bit nervous going down that way , how easy are they to use and I thought they were only used in marine not in cold water. Don't want a mass of pipework as the tank is going in the front room . If I contacted Bart would he come out to my house to help me get the best set up

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02 Apr 2016 16:20 #4 by Jonlate (Jon Late)
I knew nothing about sumps before I had my tropical tank built with one. I am so glad I did. I see no pipe work as its all in the cupboard under the tank, and there is no pipe work in the tank you can see, as it behind the overflow.
Some people say, it can sound like a toilet filling up all the time, but I get no noise off mine at all. I use a DC pump so I can adjust the settings 1% at a time to make the water exactly match in and out flow.
You can chuck 100's of media in it, and if you are thinking of a topless tank, it makes topping it up so easy. Just pour extra water into the sump.
Bart will tell you exactly what is best for you. as for coming out to your house to see which ways best, read what he did for Alex in his saltwater set up. He is so happy to help its unbelievable. Of course he would come, and then he would come and help set it up and plumb it for you as well.
I would recommend everyone to sump their freshwater tank. Best thing I ever did.

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02 Apr 2016 19:26 #5 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Planning permission, I like it!!

On the filtration, I'm using the JBL 900 for three years not and its flawless!

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02 Apr 2016 21:26 #6 by robert (robert carter)
Hi jonlate , it seems to be the way to go from what you are saying , from what I see on the forum Bart seems a really helpful guy . Have you his number if so can you please pm it to me . On a 350 litre tank what size sump would be needed . I am on hols in our apartment in spain , just got the Internet in this week so am just trying to get a few ideas and prices, too cold for the beach . Thanks a million for your very helpful ideas

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02 Apr 2016 22:54 #7 by Jonlate (Jon Late)
Blau reef motion 3kdc does 3000liters hour so that's nearly 9 tines turnover €115.
Jeboa do one as well. Bart would know more about them.
Will pm his number now

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03 Apr 2016 10:50 #8 by robert (robert carter)
Just had a look at a few sump videos mostly marine ,it seems to me that the water is taken out of the tank via a weir from the top water level and then returned from the sump to the top of the tank , so surely this does make good water circulation. With koi being such a messy fish surely I need to take the outlet from the bottom of the tank. My experience with ponds the water is taken from the deepest part of the pond and returned at the furthest point away from the intake at surface level thus creating the maximum water circulation.

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03 Apr 2016 12:22 #9 by Jonlate (Jon Late)
That is true, but if you take a feed from the bottom of the tank either with a sump or filter and something leaks, you empty the whole tank on the floor, rather than the top 2 inches!
Then your permission will not be granted rather it will be terminated.

When you do water change you suck out the mess and refill the sump.
What's interesting is that all my mess ends up in one corner of the tank, so it's really easy to keep the substrate clean, half the work has been done already.

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03 Apr 2016 15:57 #10 by robert (robert carter)
Going to give Bart a call to arrange a visit to work out the best solution for my needs. Thanks for all your info . Robert

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04 Apr 2016 07:00 #11 by robert (robert carter)
Hi jonlate, what about noise from a sump system , this tank will be going in the front room so the noise factor is important, can't have a noise tank when she's trying to watch corrie

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04 Apr 2016 13:30 #12 by Jonlate (Jon Late)
I get no noise from my sump at all, I mean no noise whatsoever.
I do get a bit of noise from my return pump itself, but I do from my pump on my filter on my other tank.
So buy a good quality return pump as that's the only place I get noise from. The rest of the system is silent.

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04 Apr 2016 15:04 - 04 Apr 2016 18:20 #13 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Try putting a mouse mat under the return pump,it can lessen the noise.Also if your getting a return pump for the sump check the wattage as it will be going 24/7.
Jon is right on the sump noise,ive one and ots silent also.It can take a small bit of fiddling with to get flow right but sump is a great option.
Gavin
Last edit: 04 Apr 2016 18:20 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner).

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04 Apr 2016 17:37 #14 by robert (robert carter)
Hi , even though I am on hols in spain made a few calls today , so have gone with jonlates sudjestion and am going for a 350 litre tank plus a 120 litre sump , have spoken to Bart today he's comming over to me next week to talk about my requirements and give us a price . I also spoke to Daniel in seahorse gave him identical requirements and asked them for a quote . Will be very interesting to see the quotes . Can't wait to get this project running ,time wise I reckon end of may before I get the tank , then 4/6 weeks to cycle the tank , so start stocking about end of July . Now just to sause some really high grade koi propably the north or even the uk

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08 Apr 2016 12:53 #15 by robert (robert carter)
This is probably a silly question but I asume that I don't need lights in the cabinet above the sump on a coldwater set up.

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08 Apr 2016 17:01 #16 by LemonJelly (Johnny Cowley)
Depends on how well you want to be able to see into your sump :lol:
I think most don't light them unless there's a specific reason. You could put one of those cheap battery powered lights in there, just so you'd have some light during maintenance.

"The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life; your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you.They're freeing your soul."

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08 Apr 2016 21:06 #17 by robert (robert carter)
Yes I think a small battery light would be OK , next then the back of the new coldwater tank bearing in mind no plants just hard landscape do I stick on a artificial background sheet , or paint it ,in which case what colour black or blue, my own thoughts would be to paint it black , what are your thoughts?

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09 Apr 2016 00:14 #18 by LemonJelly (Johnny Cowley)
Black definitely. Blue, no matter how appealing the shade, always ends up looking like a swimming pool. Black is simple and hides all kinds of flaws.

"The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life; your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you.They're freeing your soul."

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09 Apr 2016 00:31 #19 by nomad (pat murphy)
Years ago used to put a black refuse sack as a back ground to high lite the colour of the fish : )

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09 Apr 2016 04:24 #20 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered)
Absolutely BLACK! Shows up red, yellow, orange and white amazingly well....Koi fish will jump out at ya with a black background behind them....Also most filter intake and outlet pipes are black and vanish with a black background behind them...

Paint it ......Painted backgrounds look the best....

"Acrylic" paint is the best..........And roll it on with decent small rollers....Cheap ones are useless....

It will take about 5 or 6 coats with drying time in between each coat......

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09 Apr 2016 06:43 #21 by robert (robert carter)
This is great getting all the ideas sorted first the tank with sump now the black painted background is confirmed .next is gravel and hard land scape , was thinking of a 2/3 mil natural colour gravel ,there will be no real planting maybe just a bit of Canadian pond weed as koi dig like mad don't want to hurt or damage their barbels , woodwise was thinking of the lighter colour sort of root like wood (don't know what its called )instead of bog wood , rock wise some natural river rocks well rounded no Sharpe edges . Would be hoping to get the wood next so I can put it into the pond to soak while the tank is being built , finally filter media , now this is where a need help from the sump tank people, .was thingies of just using three grades or foam sheeting cut to size , and of coarse the brilliant biohome ultra , will this be OK ,as I want easy maintaince . At this rate I will have you guys picking the fish out and all , don't worry that's not going to happen. Thanks lads for the brilliant imput

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09 Apr 2016 07:07 #22 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered)
Sand!

Sand is by far the best substrate for fish that dig, for low maintenance and it wont turn green on ya...

Any fish waste just sits on the sand and doesnt sink down into it like it would with gravel...Usually the filter just takes it away then if there is reasonable flow all around the tank....

As a result there is less gravel vaccing...In fact ya dont even have to dig your gravel vac into the sand just hover it above....

Dont use play sand (It takes feckin ages to rinse and is simply too fine) It compacts as well.....People used to recommend it all the time but I wouldnt go near it...I tried it once cos it was cheap but it was filthy and a pain to clean.....It also was so fine that it would get washed into the filter at times...

Aquarium specific sand is your best bet in my opinion and it comes in tonnes of different colours....

Its easy to keep clean, Its better for fish and it looks really natural!

You cant go wrong with sand!

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09 Apr 2016 07:47 #23 by robert (robert carter)
Hi , I tried black sand in a shrimp tank and found it hard to vacuum as it just when up the hose so I changed it to black 3mil gravel

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09 Apr 2016 07:55 #24 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered)
Ya dont dig the gravel vac into sand like ya do with gravel....You just hover above it....Like I said all the crap sits on top of the sand so no need to dig the vac into it...

You also dont get uneaten food trapped underneath which means less NitrAtes and less Phosphates which equals cleaner water and healthier fish...

Anyway thats just my 10 cents worth

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09 Apr 2016 10:34 #25 by robert (robert carter)
Your reply is worth more than 10 cents :cool: :cool:

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09 Apr 2016 14:52 #26 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Silica sand would do perfectly fine and is quite cheap also.go to your nearest builder providers and try to get the prewashed and dried silica sand.Its fairly cheap to be honest and far better than the playsand option.

Gavin

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09 Apr 2016 15:34 #27 by robert (robert carter)
Leaning towards a gravel sh have on their website no 29 called red devil ,reckon it would look good against the black background

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10 Apr 2016 06:56 #28 by paulv (paul vickers)
If you go with sand, don't make my mistake and make the sand layer too thick, poisonous gasses build up and if disturbed wil kill fish in minutes. 4/5 mm is plenty.

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10 Apr 2016 14:11 #29 by robert (robert carter)
I think i have decided to go with a small gravel

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12 Apr 2016 16:23 #30 by robert (robert carter)
well Bart called over this morning ,really nice guy ,so after a good chat we have a plan for the new tank with sump , so he is going to build it for , about a month to delivery date . so now to do some shopping filter media as always biohome ultra and 3 different foams and a floss , will get the wood at the weekend so I can soak it in the pond to get waterlogged. so starting to count the days ,now to start looking for high grade koi

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