Indoor Koi not eating

More
12 Dec 2016 11:24 - 12 Dec 2016 11:24 #1 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Ladies and Gents,

Have three Butterfly Koi in a 240l tank inside, yes I know it's too small, I have a 2500l pond that I'm going to move them into at the start of the next season after they bulk up a bit. Tank is heavily filtered with an Eheim 2236 and a JBL E900 along with aeration, gets a 20% water change every week with alternating gravel clean.

Two of the Koi are eating fine but the other guy is getting thinner and is not eating. He is still swimming about, doesn't seem to be flashing or have buoyancy issues. No pebbles stuck in his mouth that I can see as a google search said this could be a reason. I'm going to do a water test tonight, I had only done a water change and filter clean yesterday when I noticed him so I didn't think I'd get a proper reading. Bought them all in Newlands about two or so months ago. Will try and post a picture of the three of them later on today so you can see what I mean.

I put a drop of Tetra Medifin in this morning before I left for work just to see if it's a mini infection, any other ideas??
Last edit: 12 Dec 2016 11:24 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan).

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Dec 2016 17:14 #2 by robert (robert carter)
Just pm you , give me a call on 0872627945 and i will see can i help you . Robert

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Dec 2016 18:19 #3 by ger310 (Ger .)

FR85 wrote: Ladies and Gents,

Have three Butterfly Koi in a 240l tank inside, yes I know it's too small, I have a 2500l pond that I'm going to move them into at the start of the next season after they bulk up a bit. Tank is heavily filtered with an Eheim 2236 and a JBL E900 along with aeration, gets a 20% water change every week with alternating gravel clean.

Two of the Koi are eating fine but the other guy is getting thinner and is not eating. He is still swimming about, doesn't seem to be flashing or have buoyancy issues. No pebbles stuck in his mouth that I can see as a google search said this could be a reason. I'm going to do a water test tonight, I had only done a water change and filter clean yesterday when I noticed him so I didn't think I'd get a proper reading. Bought them all in Newlands about two or so months ago. Will try and post a picture of the three of them later on today so you can see what I mean.

I put a drop of Tetra Medifin in this morning before I left for work just to see if it's a mini infection, any other ideas??


Sorry I've read it a couple of times and at first I thought this is going on a while but then you say when you were doing a water change yesterday you noticed him?..........there could be a number of reasons for this,a pebble that is wedged that you cant see being one of them..........if you haven't any at home get your hands on some Epsom salt (a decent sized tub of it is only 3-4 euro in any pharmacy) and add some to your tank........it helps to clear fish out among other benefits so it will only help your tank even if it doesn't help the fish that is not eating.

Ger

What do you call a three legged Donkey?

A Wonkey....duh ha :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Dec 2016 19:40 #4 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Thanks Robert and Ger, I've attached test results and images, the two together are feeding and filling out nicely but the solo guy is the one I'm on about, fairly active and everything else but doesn't seem to be eating at all.

The nitrate is high but that is something in my water here in kildare because no matter what I do be it water changes, gravel cleans or filter cleans it's always the same and doesn't fluctuate.....I can't reduce it through the usual channels and I don't want to be constantly adding chemicals.
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Dec 2016 19:51 #5 by robert (robert carter)
Thanks for the pictures , the koi in question certainly looks a bit thin , nitrates are rather high . On top of what has already been sudjested what about trying to temp him with a bit of live food , i think you said he came from Gavin in Newlands , in which case hes from the same sorse as mine , which are all feeding very well but do go utterly mad if i put in some live bloodworms. Its worth a try . Koi definatly seem to grow at different rates , i have the two remaining koi from by visit to the north , both purchased at 3 inches , both feed well but one is now double the size of the other now about 8 inches . Dont know why this happens

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Dec 2016 20:08 #6 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Thanks Robert, nitrates as mentioned have always been high even in the hospital tank when it was up and running so I really feel it's something in the tap water as anything I do doesn't seems to make a difference.

I'll try live food, I think SH normally have it in and see if that gets him going or I'll separate him into a bucket and try him on peas to see if he's a bit backed up.

Great advice as always and thanks for your time!!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Dec 2016 20:54 #7 by robert (robert carter)
Good luck and keep us posted

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Dec 2016 12:15 #8 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Did a full gravel clean last night using an external filter, will do a water change again tonight. All to see if I can get the nitrates down, I have tried before but nothing I have done has any effect. Persistence is key I guess

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Dec 2016 14:28 #9 by Jonlate (Jon Late)
Have you got any access to rain water, maybe from a water butt?
Test that with your water test kit to see if it's OK and use that in your hospital tank. The nitrates might be lower than your tap water.
Just bring it up to temperature first!!
I mostly only use rain water now for my tanks water change. Sometimes I top it up with treated tap water when it's raining and can't be bothered to go outside.
So, try and give rainwater changes a go, and see if that helps.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Dec 2016 23:30 #10 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Well, did a test on my tap water Nitrate wise and that is clear so while none of us like to admit were doing anything wrong.....I'm doing something wrong!
I do regular gravel cleans, major one the other night using a spare external filter. I do regular 20-30% water changes and I clean the two external filters in tank water every 6 weeks alternating them, so one filter of the two is cleaned every 6 weeks....
Filter foam, should I now look at changing this out again on alternating weeks, ie one chamber once a week? Could it be my filtration dragging down my system??

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Dec 2016 09:25 #11 by robert (robert carter)
This seems very weird , my 350 litre tank which has the sump , has 24 koi in it and my nitrates are just about zero, koi as you know are extremly messy fish and hard to keep water levels right in a tank . Just one thing is your test kit good , as i have had problems with opened kits . Everdently once a liquid kit is opened it is only good for 6 months . Its sounds that its a filtration problem , hence my koi tank runs on a sump with about 20kg of biohome ultimate in it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Dec 2016 15:20 - 15 Dec 2016 15:21 #12 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Filtration is an eheim Ecco 2236 and a JBL e900 and they are serviced as mentioned every 6 weeks, pipes and impeller are all cleaned at the same time. Reading other forums last night and people are saying they only change their media when it begins to crumble and fall apart which mine is far from doing, when cleaned it looks new!!

I am baffled as I didnt think I was doing anything wrong. Going to cut back on feeding to once a day with one cube of blood worm and then look at filtration, either replacing pads or adding to it
Last edit: 15 Dec 2016 15:21 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan).

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Dec 2016 15:23 #13 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Also, test kit is an API kit that was bought during august for €40 odd in SH.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Dec 2016 21:47 #14 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Just an update, added in some new media to both the filters, didn't chage it all out, did some water changes, up'd aeration and did another mini water change. Nitrates still kissing between 20 and 40.
Going to SH tomorrow to buy nitrate media for the JBL and also see about getting some plants. Didn't want to go down the plant route again as they make gravel cleaning a nightmare.

Can anyone recommend koi friendly plants?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Dec 2016 22:45 #15 by robert (robert carter)
Dont think there is anything as a koi friendly plant. Koi will just rip apart and dug up any plant you put in the tank , hense my koi tank has just a few artifishal plants in it , just to make it a bit more natural and add a bit of colour .

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Dec 2016 23:02 #16 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
I'll try adding bacteria and the nitrate pad to the filter.
I don't want it to crash though

What else could I try?

I have reduced feeding to one cube of blood worm or brine shrimp per day/every second day

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Dec 2016 23:14 #17 by robert (robert carter)
I run biohome ultimate in the sump of my koi tank ,and get no amommia nitrite and almost no nitrate. Incredable media

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Dec 2016 23:26 #18 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Can it be used in a canister filter? Thanks for your ongoing advice! I would say you are sick of me!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Dec 2016 05:21 #19 by robert (robert carter)
Yes it can infact i use it my aqua cf1200 canister filter on my tropical tank . As you can i am a big fan of biohome medias , also have some in the new pressure filter i got this year for the pond , and believe or not my winter project is to build my own trickle tower filter also for the pond , the media in it will be a mix of white pumice stone to increase our low ph tap water to about 7.5 and biohome ultimate , on the down side this media is not cheap ,but installed correctly willl last for years . Realisticly if needs a good amount of oxygen and can take up to 6 months to mature to the level when its starts to reduce nitrates. Finaly ask all the questions you want , i dont confess to know it all, and am sure there are others on this forum that can help

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Dec 2016 11:19 #20 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered)
To try and encourage the sick fish in question to eat I recommend giving this a shot...It stinks to high hell but its like heroin to fish...Soak all your food in a small amount of it for about an hour before feeding...You might want to do this outside by the way!!

www.seachem.com/garlicguard.php

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
19 Dec 2016 15:28 #21 by ger310 (Ger .)
Any update on the fish that wasn't eating?

I think if you stick to weekly large water changes and regular gravel cleans you will keep your Nitrates in check without needing to add anything else to your tank/filter.

Ger

What do you call a three legged Donkey?

A Wonkey....duh ha :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
19 Dec 2016 20:11 #22 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
No change to him I'm afraid but I've been doing water changes, added in a nitrate sachet to one of the filters and some java fern and I'm seeing changes to nitrates. I'd say they are about 20 now

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Dec 2016 13:01 #23 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Hope everyone had a nice christmas!!!

Still no change, poor chap has seemed to lose colour in his eyes, they have gone very white in comparison to the others. I put him in a 60l hospital tank, been doing regular water changes, added salt and melafix in case it was bacterial, upped aeration my taking out the non return valve. I bought epsom salts so I'm going to fill a bucket and do a 5-10 minute bath over a few days and see what that does.
It's looking like we may have lost another life in 2016

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Dec 2016 15:57 #24 by robert (robert carter)
Sorry to say this , but at this stage i dont think any good is going happen , normally white eyes would mean he has lost his sight , think it might be better to let him go to the big lake in the sky , dont like to see any animal suffer . Sorry . I will be thinning out some koi in the spring if you are interested .

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Dec 2016 19:36 #25 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Thanks Robert, I think this might be me done with koi until a lot more research is done!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Dec 2016 21:42 #26 by robert (robert carter)
Hi , certainly koi are not as easy to keep as some people think, and in my 30 years of keeping i too have lost many fish , not to forget the complete tank wipe out of 25 koi from the north that went into my new coldwater tank , thankfully all is good at the moment . As any fish keeper on this forum will tell you its a constant learning curve and none of us no it all . When things go well its great , but when things go wrong its heartbreaking , after all we are all dedicated to our hobby to provide the best possible life for our fish . Some of it must be in the breeding and certainly there are more expert people on here to explain that . Koi came from common carp that have been selectively breed to get great colours and certainly to my mind the higher the breeding the weeker the fish . I dont keep any butterfly koi because i dont consider them a strong fish , and certainly from my experience solid colour koi (Ogans and chagoi ) are the strongest varieties. As i said i will be thinning out some of my koi in the spring and certainly you are welcome to a couple if you want . The last two years i have been very much tied up getting back into the tank side of the hobby , much am really going to get back into the pond scene this season

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Jan 2017 17:50 #27 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Hi All,

I hope everyone is having a great 2017 thus far. Well the poor guy didn't make it, he just went to skin and bone, sank and that was it I'm afraid. I think himself and George Michael went within hours of one another

I have kept up the water changes on both tanks anyway and again I can only get the nitrates down to between 10-20. Nothing will shift them lower.
I have some Eheim bio media that I am going to try adding to see again if it's perhaps the over use of filter foam. I have the JBL running with the nitrate sachets so I might add another sachet to see if that helps.
Keep the faith!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Jan 2017 22:17 #28 by robert (robert carter)
Ah sorry you lost the koi , i hate it when i loose fish , sort of blame myself thinking i have done something wrong .

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 17:09 #29 by FR85 (Gavin O'Sullivan)
Not been on here in a while.

All seems to be going well in the tank of late, been doing twice weekly water changes and gravel cleans, Nitrates still seem to be a tad high but no where near the red line that they were.

The two remaining Koi are eating and getting bigger and everything else seems healthy.

I've reduced filter cleaning as the Eheim 2236 bleeding handle has been acting up so I'm trying to keep that to a minimum. It's also started drawing in air from the top of the suction side, aside from the noise it doesn't bother me as air in the filter can assist the bacteria from what I have read.

Just an update as there were concerns about the nitrates!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
22 Feb 2017 18:04 #30 by robert (robert carter)
Hi , glad to hear things have settled down , my koi tank is good just waiting for the pond to warm up a bit before they go outside , then the hunt for small good quality koi to restock the tank . No sure where you are based but what is your ph . Mind is stupid low at 6 from the tap

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.162 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum