Water charges

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02 Oct 2014 11:07 #1 by Aroshni (Lydia Olivera)
Hi guys since I received my 'welcome packet' I've been looking information about this. My house is not metered and I'm not agree with this private company, so since I'm not a customer and I don't have a contract with them I'm not going to pay unless the government says the contrary.

I found this very interesting and wanted to share because this is a scam.

www.facebook.com/hilconeill/posts/10204854518419589

Who has signed with them already?

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02 Oct 2014 11:58 #2 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
In my building the mgt company will bill us if we don't sign up. But I wont sign up. And will do 400L WC's per day MF's.
I swear I cant understand the complacency in this country. People vote for people who do NOT represent their interests and they keep on voting.

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02 Oct 2014 12:15 #3 by Dihanio (Paulie Hanlon)
I've not received a pack to my house, nor have my management company put anything through the door in regards to this.

I see this as any other utility bill. If I sign something with Vodafone/Sky/UPC/Eircom/Bord Gais/ESB etc. I'm agreeing to pay for that service. I've no problem with that. I'm not signing up to get water piped to my house from a private company when I already pay via taxes for the government to supply me.

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02 Oct 2014 12:58 - 02 Oct 2014 13:01 #4 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
Brilliant lads! I have been active all day yesterday!! My Birthday too!!! On Facebook, I will NOT PAY FOR SOMETHING I ALREADY PAY FOR A FEW TIMES OVER ALREADY!!!

There are still the same number of illiterate and ignorant buffoons who would sign a pact with the Devil without reading the details and without asking questions.

I am amazed by the number of guys who return back to their homes after a days work to find that their partner has signed it without consultation!

Constitutionally, no person, company or government has the option of cutting off water supplies, they can actually reduce it and the agreed volume is said to be 10 Litres per hour. This is done via a cap on your piping, made either of metal or plastic with a pin hole in the centre, the Meter is fixed, either on or off but not graduated.

The charge cannot be taken from pay or SW as it is a private company.

One argument put forward by government and the thieving company itself is that it is also to help in conserving water, yet, they say that if people cut their use so much as to under use the supply, they will increase the unit cost to make up the difference, so much for conservation.

For any non Irish nationals, WE ALWAYS PAID FOR WATER AND FOR THAT MATTER , HEALTH, ROADS, EDUCATION , STREET LIGHTING ETC ETC, the reason I have made that comment in particular is that Non Irish residents with a lack of the history of Ireland have constantly said to me, we have always paid for water so it is natural that Irish should too!! We already pay! This is just a money making racket run by a man who has wasted millions on Poolbeg, ayre square and heavens knows what else!

DO NOT PAY! DO NOT SIGN,IF YOU DO, THATS IT, YOU ARE NOW PART OF THEIR SYSTEM.

www.thejournal.ie/water-charges-meters-1204161-Dec2013/

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!
Last edit: 02 Oct 2014 13:01 by Homer (Kevin).

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02 Oct 2014 13:05 #5 by christyg (Chris Geraghty)
Interesting read from welfare.ie

www.welfare.ie/en/pages/personal-public-...of-practice.aspx#7.1

Q10. When should I not use my PPS No.?

A10. You should not use your PPS No. or Social Services Card in ordinary commercial transactions. For example, the number or the Social Services Card should not be requested by or given to a retailer as proof of identity or for any other reason when making a purchase, availing of a hiring service etc.

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02 Oct 2014 13:07 #6 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges

Aroshni wrote: Hi guys since I received my 'welcome packet' I've been looking information about this. My house is not metered and I'm not agree with this private company, so since I'm not a customer and I don't have a contract with them I'm not going to pay unless the government says the contrary.

I found this very interesting and wanted to share because this is a scam.

www.facebook.com/hilconeill/posts/10204854518419589

Who has signed with them already?


Thanks a million Lydia!!!

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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02 Oct 2014 13:08 #7 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
Thanks Christy

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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02 Oct 2014 13:45 #8 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
Irish Water is being touted as a government body.... Ta da! Their own website confirms they are in fact private and limited by shares!

File Attachment:


Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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02 Oct 2014 14:00 - 02 Oct 2014 14:32 #9 by Aroshni (Lydia Olivera)

christyg wrote: Interesting read from welfare.ie

www.welfare.ie/en/pages/personal-public-...of-practice.aspx#7.1

Q10. When should I not use my PPS No.?

A10. You should not use your PPS No. or Social Services Card in ordinary commercial transactions. For example, the number or the Social Services Card should not be requested by or given to a retailer as proof of identity or for any other reason when making a purchase, availing of a hiring service etc.


You're right, even the bank don't ask you that. If they were a state owned company they'll have everybody PPS number available.

Also they're lying saying they're a State owned company as shown in the pic



If that was the case why when you go to www.water.ie at the foot of the website you can read Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares ?

Interesting questions people ask and they don't know what to answer:

Invalid consumer key/secret in configuration

Invalid consumer key/secret in configuration

Invalid consumer key/secret in configuration
So water quality is not their responsability...what are they doing apart from putting a hand in everybody's pocket?

And then this...if I have any doubt
www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/polit...ans-wont-pay-4354752

Kev I know since water bill was abolished in 1996 it was somehow included in the taxes.

Edit: Adding

Invalid consumer key/secret in configuration
Last edit: 02 Oct 2014 14:32 by Aroshni (Lydia Olivera). Reason: Adding more info

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02 Oct 2014 14:05 #10 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
Hey Lydia, that Mirror report is no longer "true" per se, they won't have to pay but it will be seen as expenses, a Rose by any other name.

There is a march this weekend...... For once, I will be there.
Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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02 Oct 2014 14:09 #11 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Water charges
Miami:

I swear I cant understand the complacency in this country. People vote for people who do NOT represent their interests and they keep on voting.


This is EXACTLY what we should be doing!
French-style protests - those people wouldn't stand for this crap! They'd be out on the streets until something was done about it!
In my time in Ireland the only militancy I can recall was when the government tried to cut the pensions and the fishing licences debacle.

Kevin: we also pay for road maintenance! The roads in Dublin may not be so bad, but out here in the Midlands - after snow, ice or even heavy rainfall the roads become almost unusable! To quote something I saw online 'In Ireland we used to drive on the left of the road - now we drive on what's left of it!'

So far as water is concerned I'm in the situation of not having to pay water charges yet (even though I dread to think how much electricity is used pumping water from 80 metres down with a 3/4hp pump!). But I think even this is only temporary - I foresee a charge getting levied on us eventually too!!!

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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02 Oct 2014 14:44 #12 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
Surely you are not giving in before already!!!

"I foresee a charge getting levied on us eventually too!!!"

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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02 Oct 2014 15:09 #13 by Darkslice (Stephen Walsh)
just sent an email to irish water

Hi there,

I'm concerned about the legality of handing over my PPS number to a private company like yourself

According to welfare.ie
www.welfare.ie/en/pages/personal-public-...of-practice.aspx#7.1

Q10. When should I not use my PPS No.?

A10. You should not use your PPS No. or Social Services Card in ordinary commercial transactions. For example, the number or the Social Services Card should not be requested by or given to a retailer as proof of identity or for any other reason when making a purchase, availing of a hiring service etc.

I'm told in your leaflet entered by door that "Irish Water is a State-owned company...". But this is not true. you are in fact a private company. you even say so on your website homepage.

Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares
Can you satisfy my legal and data protection concerns?
Am I obligated under law to go into contact with Irish Water?



lets see what comes back?

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02 Oct 2014 15:11 #14 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Water charges

Homer wrote: Surely you are not giving in before already!!!

"I foresee a charge getting levied on us eventually too!!!"

Kev.


No-one said I was going to pay it - I just see a levy in the future - once they start looking around for what next excuse they can find for stealing from our pockets!

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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02 Oct 2014 15:11 #15 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
Good on ya, I just tweeted the same thing including the two photos just in case they develope amnesia or some such.

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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02 Oct 2014 15:13 - 02 Oct 2014 15:15 #16 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
Surely as with Wind power we could save rain water and sell it back to them!

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!
Last edit: 02 Oct 2014 15:15 by Homer (Kevin).

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02 Oct 2014 15:46 #17 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Water charges
I keep getting this awful thought that if everyone out here saved and used rain water the River Shannon would be reduced to a trickle - that would rather mess up their plans to pipe river water from here to your side of The Pale.
Whatever would they use then to fuel all the leaks?

NIGHTMARE SCENARIO!

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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02 Oct 2014 18:15 #18 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Due to the generally polite and crude-language-free ethos of this forum, I am unable to express my opinion of Irish Water in my normal language.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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02 Oct 2014 19:36 #19 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)

igmillichip wrote: Due to the generally polite and crude-language-free ethos of this forum, I am unable to express my opinion of Irish Water in my normal language.

ian


lol

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02 Oct 2014 20:59 #20 by baan (Fintan Breen)
Replied by baan (Fintan Breen) on topic Water charges
I'm going to go out on a limb here.

I agree with water charges. The shocking waste of water across this country is amazing. Not only through ~50% loss in public pipes but also wastage by people. There is a cost associated with water and unless the cost is associated with usage, then expect no changes.

HOWEVER... I agree that we already pay for water via general taxation. So "general" taxation should be reduced by approx the amount currently used to fund water services. The issue I see is that the current amount of tax spend on water is inadequate to meet the actual cost of delivering a good system. And the way the system was organised (into 30 separate individual entities within Councils) was crazy and costly. Ergo we have a public water system which looses 50% before it even gets to houses. So we probably do need to invest more into water in any case.

In relation to this being a "private" company or not... a Private Limited Company is one of the legal company structure of many companies in Ireland. There are a number of other state bodies with similar structures wholly owned by the Government of Ireland, or one of it's Ministers on its behalf, all on behalf of the people of Ireland. E.g. An Post. If you wish to confirm this, please search on the company registration office for An Post (reg number 98788) and Irish Water (reg number 530363) to confirm this on search.cro.ie/company/CompanySearch.aspx .

The reason for PPS numbers is that the Government is "giving" a "free" allowance to each person. I can understand this...in theory. I would have thought they would need all PPS numbers as the allowance should be per person and not per home.
I'm not clear if PPS numbers are required where other utilities are given allowances (e.g. electricity / gas allowances), but since the numbers who would be getting this allowance are much smaller, it is probably an administrative task for someone to check names and addresses. Given that all occupied households will be getting this allowance, PPS number checking does seem like the least additional administrative cross-checking procedure.
Having said that... I understand people's issue with data protection and I think that people's worry that the company may be sold, etc, is a valid concern.

I have no bother with people claiming it should be free. I believe Education should be free at the point of use (for exactly the opposite reason - it would encourage people to use the service!) and funded through taxation, so people are entitled to opinions. However, I would prefer where they decide to confirm thing as facts they should be facts, rather that made up nonsense which doesn't do anyone any good. Let's debate the actual issues, not made up stuff.

And I use rainwater for my water changes. I know some of you also do this and I think you will agree that it is amazing the amount of water which is collected - my water butt is rarely emptied! In my dream house, I'd have a proper water collection system so that rain water could be used to do many of the things costly mains public supply should not be needed for (flushing toilets, washing machine, etc).

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02 Oct 2014 22:02 - 03 Oct 2014 00:54 #21 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
There is no "free" allowance, there is nothing "free" we have paid tax covering Water, end of, the argument as to whether it costs something to provide it is mute, it has already been paid for including the "free allowance"!

It is also B/S to suggest the charges will reduce wastage or that there is a degree of conservation engrained within the charge, they have expressly said that they will increase the unit price if individuals use to little! B/S! They want us to use as much as possible, more used, wasted more money and your man on 250000 a year doesnt give a damn what it costs because his pool or pond needs filling and his car/cars need need washing, it's the poor person who is counting the cups of tea or the number of washes of kids clothes that it affects, there is more to this than the arguements re Private or government body its a lot more personal than that and I once again say, NOTHING IS FOR FREE , WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING THROUGH TAXES AND GET NOTHING IN RETURN !


Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!
Last edit: 03 Oct 2014 00:54 by JohnH (John). Reason: Dealt with expletives - this is an emotive subject but we must retain a degree of decorum on what is - after all - a family Forum.

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02 Oct 2014 22:35 - 03 Oct 2014 00:59 #22 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
The fact is that in the last few years I have paid 46% of my pay check to the Irish government, and 23% of the leftover in VAT, plus the TV licence (i think local TV is bad, i pay for cable but yet i have to pay a licence) funny enough i havent used my TV in 4 months because i have been busy with my fish but still i have to pay it. Part of that money has been used to pay for political corruption, bankers greed and irresponsibilities, yet how many of us can walk into a bank today and be granted a loan easily, while we have paid for them to survive. After all you pay you still need private health insurance, but you still have to upfront cost with your GP, then wait the end of the year and maybe you'll get paid back a portion. also if you do not want to wait for months you have to consult specialists privately and pay more... infrastructure is nonsense, the tunnel to airport at 10 euros come on,.....
I work basically january to august for Ireland while my family could use the money...and i dont see what i get in return.. do you? Oh yes I am french and i complain and a few of you may think i should go back to France, but trust me it is in your interest to have me here as i am generating jobs and spend money while Google and Apple and Microsoft get away with billions using all kinds of schemes. how do they manage to be so short of money when we are taxed like that???
Last edit: 03 Oct 2014 00:59 by JohnH (John). Reason: Expletive exchanged for a less-offensive word - sorry

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02 Oct 2014 22:38 #23 by Aroshni (Lydia Olivera)

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02 Oct 2014 22:54 - 03 Oct 2014 01:02 #24 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges
I for one like having you around Stephane and you origin is of no interest to me except for the fact that you know how to Demonstrate, not just keyboard trolling, genuine expression of dissatisfaction and not being the fearful little Sheep that we the Irish are, ah sure we'll pay for it one way or another or sure what can ya do about it? Well I am sick of it and the ones who support it are usually those it least affects, just as the House tax and the relief given to wealthier people who can afford the more up to date vehicle that has least emissions, lower road tax, but the person who doesn't want to get caught up in the "Darling, we must get a 142 D our 14 1 is old crap have to pay higher tax, get vehicles checked every other year and it all goes into a central pot and rarely if ever goes where it is supposed to.

What about the house charge? that was supposed to support amenities etc, does it? Hell no! Some is going to Irish water!

A quango that was promised would never happen has! Pay if you want to, I won't.

Be a Sheep and baaaah like the rest but I'd rather go to Jail than line the pockets of already rich wasters looking at scare and bullyboy tactics, I have never felt so compelled to march but I won't let this one pass.

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!
Last edit: 03 Oct 2014 01:02 by JohnH (John). Reason: Expletive (as before) changed - sorry

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02 Oct 2014 23:21 #25 by baan (Fintan Breen)
Replied by baan (Fintan Breen) on topic Water charges
Those arguments are ok. I disagree that charges will not reduce consumption but let's agree to disagree. If enough people wished to protest then fair enough.

I tend to agree on the amount of tax being paid not being worth the services received in return.

My issue is not with your argument that you pay too much tax and/or we already pay for water. That's a valid position. My issue is with false arguments like the company is not state owned and the like.

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03 Oct 2014 00:27 #26 by Aroshni (Lydia Olivera)
How do you know if the company is State owned?

They say that in the application package, then if you go to www.water.ie/about-us/company/about-irish-water/ it says that they're semi-state owned, and in the section they claim to be subsidiary of Board Gais.
Also they say at the foot page that they are private company with shares...

_________________

If I'm not wrong there will be a protest on the 11 of October, so my husband and I will be attending to show our disagreement and learn more on the matter.

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03 Oct 2014 01:07 #27 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Water charges
As mentioned in 'reasons for edit' it is accepted that this is a very emotive subject, but please temper the language. We don't need swear words to express how strongly we feel about this issue.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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03 Oct 2014 06:10 #28 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)

JohnH wrote: As mentioned in 'reasons for edit' it is accepted that this is a very emotive subject, but please temper the language. We don't need swear words to express how strongly we feel about this issue.

John


oops sorry John!
was carried away

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03 Oct 2014 07:01 #29 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic Water charges

baan wrote: Those arguments are ok. I disagree that charges will not reduce consumption but let's agree to disagree. If enough people wished to protest then fair enough.

I tend to agree on the amount of tax being paid not being worth the services received in return.

My issue is not with your argument that you pay too much tax and/or we already pay for water. That's a valid position. My issue is with false arguments like the company is not state owned and the like.


If that's the case, explain why the website indicates private ownership and the paperwork, it is Government.

Kev.

The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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03 Oct 2014 07:50 - 03 Oct 2014 08:32 #30 by Darkslice (Stephen Walsh)
Just looking at some of the repair rates.

If you have a leak between the meter and you house, they will charge you 188 for 1 hour to inspect, and 94 per hour after.

Now my local plumber costs me about 20 per hour.

Its gets worse if they have to call out after work hours, 282 for the first hour! Holy ****!
Last edit: 03 Oct 2014 08:32 by JohnH (John). Reason: Expletive (as before) changed - sorry

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