How long before Discus parents get it right?

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25 Jan 2015 21:43 #1 by donalh (Donal)
This might be a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" type question - but generally how many attempts would it take for young Discus parents to get it right? I mean from eggs, fertilization, through to free swimming juveniles. I have some young discus, 4-5 inches, two of which paired off a few months ago and after several attempts the eggs never make it to wriggler stage. I suspect the male may not be mature yet and isn't stepping up properly. Could he just be going through the motions? Water quality is within perfect parameters, twice weekly changes. On the advice of LFS I treated water with some Myxazin (Waterlife) to protect eggs. I never expected them to start successfully breeding right away, appreciate it will take time.. i'm just looking for advice on what else i should be trying or looking out for to help them along. Thanks

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26 Jan 2015 00:19 #2 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
are all the eggs turning white ?

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26 Jan 2015 00:21 #3 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
When you say parameters are perfect what are they. What is your TDS measurement?

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26 Jan 2015 00:24 #4 by donalh (Donal)

Miamiheat wrote: are all the eggs turning white ?


Yup, all turn white over the course of a few days even thought both parents seem very attentive

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26 Jan 2015 08:20 #5 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
Do you see any eggs that are fertilised (deeper orange is the best i can describe)? before they go white?
i'll throw a couple of ideas at you and perhaps it will help but it is not exhaustive:
temp should be closer to 26C when they spawn, although I have had success at higher temp.
if they is too much water flow right where they lay the eggs then the sperm of the male could be dissipated before touching the eggs
your TDS should be very low (mine was around 80), some people use RO water to drop the TDS significantly and I heard it greatly increases the fertilisation rate.

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26 Jan 2015 10:15 #6 by Discus-Killester (Sinisa)

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26 Jan 2015 10:19 #7 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
LOL Sina,"Total Dissolved solids" - hard water = bad

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26 Jan 2015 13:43 #8 by Darkslice (Stephen Walsh)
If it's of help, mine have been at it about 4 months, only a few days ago I got 3 or 4 wigglers.

None survived but it was the next step.

My female is about 4" and male is about 5 to 5.5"

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26 Jan 2015 18:06 #9 by Patrick888 (Patrick Drummey)
Took my pair about a dozen attempts before I got free swimming fry but once they get the knack of it all seems to go well from then on.

Also, some good advice from Miamiheat re water flow around the egg laying area helped ;)

I found patience the key - stick with it

Pa

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26 Jan 2015 18:47 #10 by donalh (Donal)
I have experimented with the TDS. Lowering it when i see them shaping up to lay. Lowest i have tried is 120 which i have lowered with RO. SAying that, my TDS meter is a cheap pen stick and may not be terribly accurate.

Miamiheat wrote: When you say parameters are perfect what are they. What is your TDS measurement?

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26 Jan 2015 18:54 #11 by donalh (Donal)
Cant say ive noticed a deeper orange colour but will watch out for that.
My temp might be a little high then, will try lowering.
Waterflow shouldnt be a problem as theey are spawning on a breeding cone in the most settled part of the tank.
Thanks for million for the pointers... my first time attempting to breed discus so need all the help i can get :cheer:

Miamiheat wrote: Do you see any eggs that are fertilised (deeper orange is the best i can describe)? before they go white?
i'll throw a couple of ideas at you and perhaps it will help but it is not exhaustive:
temp should be closer to 26C when they spawn, although I have had success at higher temp.
if they is too much water flow right where they lay the eggs then the sperm of the male could be dissipated before touching the eggs
your TDS should be very low (mine was around 80), some people use RO water to drop the TDS significantly and I heard it greatly increases the fertilisation rate.

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27 Jan 2015 09:42 #12 by donalh (Donal)
This definitely helps, many thanks for taking the time to reply.. give me hope they will get to the next step soon :)

Darkslice wrote: If it's of help, mine have been at it about 4 months, only a few days ago I got 3 or 4 wigglers.

None survived but it was the next step.

My female is about 4" and male is about 5 to 5.5"

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27 Jan 2015 09:44 #13 by donalh (Donal)
Thanks a lot for the reply. Quite a few more practice runs ahead then from the sounds of it. Cool, appreciate the advice :)

Patrick888 wrote: Took my pair about a dozen attempts before I got free swimming fry but once they get the knack of it all seems to go well from then on.

Also, some good advice from Miamiheat re water flow around the egg laying area helped ;)

I found patience the key - stick with it

Pa

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02 Feb 2015 13:42 #14 by donalh (Donal)
Fresh batch of eggs appeared today, Temp lowered a litte, TDH lowered, removed the carbon and started adding Myxazim. Fingers crossed

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02 Feb 2015 13:49 #15 by ceech (Desmond Gaynor)
good luck :-) If you really want to breed them i would buy yourself an RO unit and use only this water on your tank. Will increase your chances allot more.

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02 Feb 2015 13:52 #16 by Darkslice (Stephen Walsh)
Nothing can survive in pure RO Water.?

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02 Feb 2015 15:26 #17 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
I honestly think that you can have fry at TDS of 120
now the purpose of having low TDS (if i understood the concept correctly) is that the eggs are permeable to sperm released by the male. The harder the water the quickest the eggs will solidify (i think ) and prevent the sperm from fertilising them. So if that is right the TDS should be low already when the female lays the eggs and the male makes its passes on top to release sperm.
good luck.

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11 Feb 2015 14:37 #18 by donalh (Donal)
No success on the last batch :-( I'm putting it down to inexperienced/immature parents.

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13 Feb 2015 10:08 #19 by Discus-Killester (Sinisa)

donalh wrote: I'm putting it down to inexperienced/immature parents.


How old are the parents?

Is it possible that you have 2 females?

Any pictures of them?

To answer your first question : I get it right first time (most of the times), if not first then definitely second :blush:

Sina

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23 Mar 2015 08:51 #20 by Darkslice (Stephen Walsh)
Found out recently that the other fish in the tank where eating the eggs at night time, I left the light on this time and I now have free swimming babies.

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