Questions on baby brine shrimp hatching

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25 Sep 2014 20:08 #1 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
Hi all,
For the life of me i cant seem to be successful at hatching baby brine shrimp eggs.
I have been using the artemio mix by JBL. Since i couldn't see any results after a day or two i setup a tank with a bit of water and a heater at 28 celsius:
i did get a few BBS but a lot of eggs unhatched. So i had very limited success for 2 or 3 days but now back to square one.
I am using 1/2 liter of tap water and mixing 3 measuring spoons of the mix (i am shaking the container first). Then i am giving it all a shake, setup an airstone or air hose, turn on a light and leave for 24h. Am I doing anything wrong?
Do you have a technique that works well that you could share?
thank you in advance
Stephane

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25 Sep 2014 20:57 - 26 Sep 2014 10:13 #2 by davey_c (dave clarke)
I have never used that mix myself but use to buy eggs on ebay and hatch them in a freshwater/ aquarium salt mix without problems. There were very few unhatched eggs. I used a 2L bottle at the start and then changed to the hatcher ye put inside the tank on suction cups but never used an airstone, just an air tube with just enough bubbling to keep the eggs moving so they dont stick to the sides... i used a low salt concentration although i couldnt be more specific because that was some time ago now.

Below tank is for sale

my plywood tank build.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum...k-build-diary#137768
Last edit: 26 Sep 2014 10:13 by davey_c (dave clarke).

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25 Sep 2014 21:01 #3 by Hicker12 (Stephen Hickey)
Hey Stephane,

I never used the JBL set so cant comment on it but I have had excellent results with good quality eggs and a diy set-up link below.



Hope that is of some help to you.

Stephen

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25 Sep 2014 21:37 #4 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
Thank you.
I have seen that video many times and made my hatchers the same way, i suspect that either my eggs are bad or I am inpatient or both :)
Tonite I tried decapsulating eggs. fed some to the fry and put the others in the hatcher. Hopefully i will have better news tomorrow.

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25 Sep 2014 21:51 #5 by JohnH (John)
Miami,
Here's Colin's (puddlefish) article on his method of hatching them.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php?optio...&catid=51&Itemid=128

John

ps I suspect the JBL mix could be 'dodgy' - as I told you last week, I have a continuous hatch system running with a 2ltr bottle hatching daily, I honestly only use domestic salt - and while I might suffer a bit with egg shells, I still get enough newly-hatched shrimps for my use.

I hope you get to 'crack' it eventually, there really is no 'magic' about it - it must be pretty simple, even I can do it.

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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25 Sep 2014 23:31 #6 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
very nice thread i like the design of his hatchery because there should be less evaporation.
question, once you used one batch do you throw everything away and start again?

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25 Sep 2014 23:37 #7 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
I don't use the Hi-Juice bottles, but similar bottles work well in this dirt cheap and very effective method.
My main set-up uses multiple 2-litre spring-water bottles in series (air from one powers the next etc).

Miamiheat, I would re-use the water several times before finally binning it..........old shells are filtered off (I bought one of the JBL sieve sets a few years and it save me loads of time in not having to be so careful in decanting).

The Brine Shrimp and Salt mix (from JBL) is sort of a con when you can buy the phial of eggs for little more and then use either saltwater or common cooking salt added to water.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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26 Sep 2014 00:16 #8 by JohnH (John)

Miamiheat wrote: very nice thread i like the design of his hatchery because there should be less evaporation.
question, once you used one batch do you throw everything away and start again?


Here we have a 'horses-for-courses' scenario - proving, yet again, that what works for one may not be the 'right' way for everyone.
Unlike Ian (above) I discard the lot and start over.
I should have explained better - I have two bottles running at once but running consecutively. In other words so there is always a bottle ready, always using 'yesterday's' bottle for today's feeding, then re-filling it ready for the day after tomorrow. (This all sounds rather confusing - I do hope it makes some sort of sense).
John.

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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26 Sep 2014 05:27 #9 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)

JohnH wrote:

Miamiheat wrote: very nice thread i like the design of his hatchery because there should be less evaporation.
question, once you used one batch do you throw everything away and start again?


Here we have a 'horses-for-courses' scenario - proving, yet again, that what works for one may not be the 'right' way for everyone.
Unlike Ian (above) I discard the lot and start over.
I should have explained better - I have two bottles running at once but running consecutively. In other words so there is always a bottle ready, always using 'yesterday's' bottle for today's feeding, then re-filling it ready for the day after tomorrow. (This all sounds rather confusing - I do hope it makes some sort of sense).
John.


Yes John it does make perfect sense.

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27 Sep 2014 19:15 #10 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
John what is the exact dosage you use (how many grams of eggs, salt, for how much water. Are you using naking soda as buffer like the youtube video lad does?
I did harvest some BBS today but still the yield seems bad.
i bought eggs today and will try 2 fresh batches: one with eggs water and salt and the second with the artemio mix. I will check results in same conditions to see what happens.

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27 Sep 2014 19:36 - 27 Sep 2014 19:38 #11 by JohnH (John)
I use an 'imperial' measure - one heaped teaspoonful of salt to each pint of water - but that's reasonably approximate as more often than not extra salt 'creeps' in.
I use ordinary salt from Lidl - no extras - and around two level teaspoonsful of eggs.
Hope that helps
John
ps, my water here is pretty hard and above neutral pH so I think that obviates the need for a buffer.

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.
Last edit: 27 Sep 2014 19:38 by JohnH (John). Reason: Added postscript

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27 Sep 2014 20:30 #12 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)

JohnH wrote: I use an 'imperial' measure - one heaped teaspoonful of salt to each pint of water - but that's reasonably approximate as more often than not extra salt 'creeps' in.
I use ordinary salt from Lidl - no extras - and around two level teaspoonsful of eggs.
Hope that helps
John
ps, my water here is pretty hard and above neutral pH so I think that obviates the need for a buffer.


I went online and you find indications of 25 grams per liter all the way to 32 grams per liter. I went with 30 grams per liter.

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27 Sep 2014 21:54 #13 by Jim (Jim Lawlor)
Two things I found made a difference were using a light on the hatchery - even for a few hours; and using warm water (not cold from the tap).

The light seems to speed up hatching and the warm water from the start also speeds it up and i think increases hatching rates

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27 Sep 2014 22:37 #14 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
I have the hatcheries bathing in a nano cube with a heater at 28C
lights on 24/7
:)

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27 Sep 2014 23:50 #15 by JohnH (John)

Miamiheat wrote:

JohnH wrote: I use an 'imperial' measure - one heaped teaspoonful of salt to each pint of water - but that's reasonably approximate as more often than not extra salt 'creeps' in.
I use ordinary salt from Lidl - no extras - and around two level teaspoonsful of eggs.
Hope that helps
John
ps, my water here is pretty hard and above neutral pH so I think that obviates the need for a buffer.


I went online and you find indications of 25 grams per liter all the way to 32 grams per liter. I went with 30 grams per liter.


I was trying - not-so-successfully to suggest that the actual quantities of both water and salt are not excessively important.
However, you could - of course - buy a cheap hydrometer and make a 'perfect' saline solution if you so desired.
There's probably something somewhere to say what the right figure is for brineshrimp water salinity.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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28 Sep 2014 00:28 #16 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Stephane as mentioned above there really is no secret to hatching these but there are a couple of things that can help the hatching process.

Hydrate the eggs. Put them in a small tub of tap water for about an hour to soak up some water so they sink better and don't float as much.
sieve them from the fresh water and put in the pre heater (20-30c) salted water. S.G. 1.022-1.028 (you can check on-line to convert this measurement to weight in salt).
Light aeration is all that is needed. Just keep the eggs moving without them been spit out of the water or settling on the bottom or the sides of the container.
They also need light to hatch. It doesn't have to be strong light nor a particular spectrum (within reason).
At the 28c that you are trying to hatch them at they should hatch in about 24 hours.

Once you get the hang of it, hydrating the eggs may not be necessary. IME you just get a better hatch rate this way.

With the world wide demand for these eggs it is getting harder (or at least more expensive) to get good quality eggs with a good hatch rate.

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30 Sep 2014 19:55 #17 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)
Just a big thank you to all.
I basically have put in practice a few of the tips given on this thread and very happy with the result. My fish are even happier :)
Definitely more interesting to buy eggs and make a hatching solution: the artemio mix didnt work out well for me.

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01 Oct 2014 00:02 #18 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)

Miamiheat wrote: the artemio mix didnt work out well for me.


Stephane it may not be a bad idea to contact the company who package and supply these eggs. After all they, just like you have to buy these eggs.
They might be paying for eggs with a good hatch rate but in reality this is not the case.
I'm sure they would appreciate the feed back.

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01 Oct 2014 11:06 #19 by Miamiheat (Stephane Lemaire)

platty252 wrote:

Miamiheat wrote: the artemio mix didnt work out well for me.


Stephane it may not be a bad idea to contact the company who package and supply these eggs. After all they, just like you have to buy these eggs.
They might be paying for eggs with a good hatch rate but in reality this is not the case.
I'm sure they would appreciate the feed back.




Feedback only works when you deal with intelligent people. Here is my email and the speedy answer that I got (copy and paste of their webpage information regarding artemio mix):


Dear Stephane,



Sorry to hear that you are not happy with your Artemio Mix.



25 °C water temperature is ideal for hatching. At room temperature (equivalent to a water temperature of approx. 20-21 °C), it takes up to 36 hours. As the number of eggs in the KidSet in the salt mixture is decreased (so that the hatched larvae don't poison themselves with their metabolic end products), you may not be able to recognise the small nauplii in the KidSet at first sight. Backlight may help to see them better.

Planktonic algae are ideal for rearing the larvae. ArtemioFluid contains a suspension of ultra-fine algae products which the larvae accept as substitute food. A warm, light spot is recommended. If there is a lack of light, especially in the winter, you may want to provide additional lighting, e.g. by using an energy-saving lamp.Based on my experience, the actual hatching rate is quite constant within the range of room temperatures, around 90 % for our eggs. The time varies enormously, ranging from 16 h at a temperature of 28 °C to 36 h at 20-21 °C. It isn't until temperatures drop below 20 °C that the hatching rate also drops, and rather quickly at that. Results are best at approx. 25 °C.

The hatching rate depends less on temperature and more so on the eggs used and their origin, where there are distinct differences in terms of both species and years. In some years, the hatching rate is higher, and in others it's somewhat lower.





We will forward your complain to our development department.







Best regards



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Von: Stephane L [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Oktober 2014 08:22
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Betreff: Artemio mix



Hello,

I take the time to write you about the Artemio mix.

I have purchased a tub of artemio mix at my local shop to feed my fry and was very disappointed by the hatch rates (28C, and light 24/7). I thought maybe I had bought a bad batch or i was doing something wrong (although the date on the tub was still good) so i bought another one (6.99 Euros not cheap for 92% salt). The results were the same (disappointing). So since i still had to feed my fry I went ahead and i bought pure eggs and made my own salt solution => same conditions 28C and light and the hatch rate is huge.

So I thought I would let you know that I am not happy to have spent almost 14 Euros to get pretty much nothing.

Maybe you can use this feedback to improve the product. I use many other products from JBL without complaints but i think this one lets your customers down.

Best regards

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02 Oct 2014 23:22 #20 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Ah! I see your flaw. You forgot to mention to them you are more than 10 years old.

Good to see you now have hatching success but had to learn it a frustrating way.

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