live rock

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11 Nov 2007 13:23 #1 by pierce (pierce)
live rock was created by pierce (pierce)
I know it,s a stupid question but don,t laugh i am only learning:blush: .
Iunderstand that liverock has critters living in it that filters the water would these survive in normal non salted water.The reason i ask is i have filled my tank with salted water and a few pieces of liverock (i need alot more)and let the powerheads and internal filter going for about 2 weeks(no fish) when i checked the nirate levels they are through the roof (110)after two 50% saltwater changes they are still the same.When i was only thinking of getting into marines i was offered livesand for cheap wich i bought and left for 3 weeks in a bag:S not relising that all the critters would die so i am asuming that this is the cause for the high nitrates:unsure: .So i am planning to leave the internal filter with only carbon inside it and taking out the sand i was going to do this with normal nonsalted water and the marine aquasafe that makes tap water safe to use.Then when the nitrates are down add salt because i am after using buckets of salt already.Sorry i did not think this post was going to be this long:ohmy: .
I can hear you laughing stop it:P .

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11 Nov 2007 21:30 #2 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re:live rock
There are no stupid questions only stupid answers.
Nobody, not even Jack Cousteau was born with a head full of
fish/Marine knowledge.


If you put the rock in fresh water you will kill everything that is living in the tank. When you re add the rock you will
get an ammonia spike because of all the dead matter.


Question?
Did you buy cured or uncured rock?
What are all the other readings?
Your nitrates can only rise if there is something to feed it.
Be patient, don`t rush into anything. Remove any biological
filtration and just use your filter for mechanical waste and
for adding carbon. See if you get any Ammonia spikes.
Don`t do any water changes just yet. I assume you have not
got any fish/inverts yet.

Take your time and do it right. You could be adding fish very soon.

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12 Nov 2007 20:29 - 13 Nov 2007 00:40 #3 by pierce (pierce)
Replied by pierce (pierce) on topic Re:live rock
Question?
Did you buy cured or uncured rock?
What are all the other readings?
Your nitrates can only rise if there is something to feed it.
Be patient, don`t rush into anything. Remove any biological
filtration and just use your filter for mechanical waste and
for adding carbon. See if you get any Ammonia spikes.
Don`t do any water changes just yet. I assume you have not
got any fish/inverts yet.

Take your time and do it right. You could be adding fish very soon.[/quote]





Sorry to get back so late.I did all tests this evening
p.h wide test=7.5
nitrate=110
nitrite=1.6
phophat=0
after all tests i have now removed the white foam pads from the fluval 4 internal filter and left just the carbon pad i hope that is what you ment.I bought cured live rock-I am going to buy more liverock this week i know i will get a nitrate spike but should this help take down the nitrate in the long term?I have nothing in the tank only sand and rock,the internal fiter(now with just carbon pad)and 2 aqua clear 4000 powerheads.I am nearly sure this is because of this dam sand do you think i should siphon it out and leave the the tank with the new cured rock for 2 weeks?sorry my posts are not usually this long i swear
Last edit: 13 Nov 2007 00:40 by pierce (pierce).

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13 Nov 2007 14:22 #4 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re:live rock
From those readings it looks like you got uncured rock.
Are you using proper test kits and not those dip tests.
At least you know it is cycling.

I would wait till the nitrite reaches 0 and do a big water change before adding any cleaning crew or fish.
I dont know how long it will take to get a reading of 110,
(Is this PPM of MG/L) down to zero or if it ever will.

Wait till all you rock is added and you NO2 is 0 then do a massive water change before adding your clearer crew.

Have you any brown algea in the tank.

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14 Nov 2007 22:52 #5 by pierce (pierce)
Replied by pierce (pierce) on topic Re:live rock
cheers anthony i am using nutrafain test kit,s
the tests are mg/L
may be the live rock died before ir went into the tank
I am getting the brown alage in the tank.
I am buying a full compliment of liverock and live sand next week
I am thinking of emptying the water this week,taken out the sand and rock thats in it
filling it again,get tempature up,adding the salt then new live sand and cured liverock what do you think

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15 Nov 2007 08:50 #6 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re:live rock
Sounds like a lot of work and expense.
Personally I would add the rock and the sand and wait till
the tank is cycled before doind a water change.
It will learn you patience.:laugh:
Believe me, you need patience and to take your time with Marines. Don`t rush into anything. Margin of error is so small.

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15 Nov 2007 20:40 #7 by pierce (pierce)
Replied by pierce (pierce) on topic Re:live rock
ok i will do that cheers for your help

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17 Nov 2007 00:10 #8 by kieronr (kieronr)
Replied by kieronr (kieronr) on topic Re:live rock
Hi Pierce,it sounds like the live sand was the cause of the problem.After 3 weeks it would have turned to ammonia soup that your live rock and filtration have struggled to deal with.As a result you have exra bioload that your rock can't break down.Your sand in theory would turn live again given time but i'd be inclined to syphon it out and let the rock do the work on the water.I'd do partial water changes periodically and keep testing and don't add any new stock till everything settles down.Sorry i never replied to your email till now but i've been snowed under this week.kieron

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17 Nov 2007 19:00 #9 by pierce (pierce)
Replied by pierce (pierce) on topic Re:live rock
cheers kieron i was planning to but liverock in about 200 euros worth every 2 weeks so have only 200 euros worth in a 240 litre tank.But am now in a position to put about 600 euros worth in + livesand-I have alot of brown grass like algae all over the tank and the liverock(200 euros) is this enough to deal with the alage.should i just hold off on the sand and liverock for now or the more the merrier?

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17 Nov 2007 21:45 #10 by lampeye (lampeye)
Replied by lampeye (lampeye) on topic Re:live rock
you should leave your lights off until the day you add your clean up crew. i agree with kieron - get rid of the sand ! the rest is up to you, i personally would try to bring the rock back to its former glory, worth the wait IMO, although i can see why you want to start with a clean slate!

lampeye

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17 Nov 2007 23:16 #11 by pierce (pierce)
Replied by pierce (pierce) on topic Re:live rock
thanks lampeye i took the sand out tonight.I think i will start afresh and put the liverock thats in the tank into the holding tank i am setting up.

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17 Nov 2007 23:32 #12 by paulm (paulm)
Replied by paulm (paulm) on topic Re:live rock
Pierce so now Im getting the drift that you bought the sand from someone who was breaking down a tank. If so then it is likly this is the cause of the problem. The amount of live rock in your tank can't seem to cope with the bioload and this is why the tank is taking so long to cycle. The live sand you left is dead basically. OK lets start from scratch :

1 Remove the sand bed and leave the bottom clear for now.

2 call up to me and Ill lend you my external . this will help seed your tank. Ill leave the filters as is .

3 Dont keep buying live rock in small quantities because you will get die off and this causes spikes . This will escilate the problem.

we will get a positive result it just takes time

If there is any thing else Please let us know

Cheers mate

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18 Nov 2007 00:28 #13 by kieronr (kieronr)
Replied by kieronr (kieronr) on topic Re:live rock
Hi pierce,i'd think that your brown algae is only part of the tank maturing,most tanks go through this phase in the first few weeks.Don't panic as it should disappear as higher algae takes over.Keep adding the live rock and monitor regulary.If you add live sand,it will start to work straight away as a nitrate reducer.

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18 Nov 2007 22:43 #14 by pierce (pierce)
Replied by pierce (pierce) on topic Re:live rock
cheer lads.paulm can you pm your address i would love to drop up thursday or friday if thats ok.Now what do you all want for christmas;).I am going to buy all the live rock and sand hopefully this weekend

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19 Nov 2007 23:56 #15 by kieronr (kieronr)
Replied by kieronr (kieronr) on topic Re:live rock
Hi Pierce,just been talking to paulm and i think you can get me his new tank,Thanks very much.

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24 Nov 2007 11:41 #16 by pierce (pierce)
Replied by pierce (pierce) on topic Re:live rock
ok just thought i would fill everybody in lads you were right about the sand i siphioned out the sand and left the tank run for about a week i checked the nitrate level after the meet on wednesday and it had shot down to about 15mg/l from 110mg/l.Butin saying all that i still needed 50-60k of liverock and a new skimmer plus i was looking to get some lights for corals so all in all anthony selling his tank was a good one for me wich leaves my own tank setup on hold for another few months at least.planning the big move tomorrow or a little move in paulm case.so if anyone has water containers or fish bags i would be gratful for a loan anybody wants to lend a hand i will get the drink in after

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