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08 Jan 2008 01:17 #1 by Avonmore (Pat Cullen)
Hi All

My tank has been cycling now for 26th Dec. Been doing water changes ( about 20%) every 2nd day, treating water with stress coat and treating the water every 7 days with stress zyme. The few gold fish I have at the moment look to be ok ( 1 looks blind in 1 eye but happy) The water has looked foggy since the start, but is clearing. Tank is a rio 240 with an internal filter. Been testing the water regulary, No2 and No3 levels are 0 but Ammonia has varied between 0.20 to 0.25 but it has gone up to 0.50 tonight. Been feeding the fish flake food and last night some skined and split peas. Water temp is 22C.

Do I need to do more with my filter ie. wash or change some of the filters?

Advise will be appreciated

Happy New Year to all

Pat

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  • Valerie (Valerie)
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08 Jan 2008 01:36 #2 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re:How am I doing?
Hi Pat,

Your tank has not cycled yet. You might want to do a bigger water change quickly in order to reduce your ammonia to zero as it is bad for the fish. Maybe you should give them less food for the next few days (maybe no food for the next couple of days even).
The filter sponges should be rinced in old tank water, not under the tap, during your water changes (not every day though - maybe once a week).
It will get easier once the tank has cycled ;-)

Valerie

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08 Jan 2008 10:04 #3 by Didihno (Didihno)
Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:How am I doing?
Do yourself a big favour Pat and get some dirty filter media from well, anywhere.
Either ask in a shop (A risk - you don't know what is in their water) or best off asking someone on here for some.
It will at least halve your cycling time and put the fish under much less risk.

BTW if your tank was only set up on 26th Dec, the filters will not need washing at all.
But if you do ever wash them, as Valerie said, only do it in the water you have taken out of the tank.
Your filter is the life of your fish. Keep it alive and well and your tank has a great chance of being a success!

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08 Jan 2008 14:52 - 08 Jan 2008 18:28 #4 by S180de (S180de)
Replied by S180de (S180de) on topic Re:How am I doing?
edited. for some reason the original post didn;t display complete:

Agree with Darah and Valerie there. Once your tank has run for a few months (and if you have gravel/substrate in your tank) you can also rinse your filter pads under tap water (avoid hot water). bacteria don't immediately die from the tap water and there are plenty in the mould and gravel of your tank.
Last edit: 08 Jan 2008 18:28 by S180de (S180de).

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08 Jan 2008 20:52 #5 by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods)
Under no circumstances would I wash my filter medium under a tap.

It only takes one incident to happen and months of work can be destroyed. While tap water may normally be safe you only have to read the accounts of where water supplies got contaminated to see why you must use products to make water safe and only wash medium in tank water

I would never change any more than 50% of my water in one day thus the new water is diluted, I always add enough of my choice product as if I have changed all my water. By washing the medium in tank water I removed, it nevergets any more than a fifty mix of water that has been treated thus protecting my beneficial bacteria.

Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods

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08 Jan 2008 22:21 #6 by Didihno (Didihno)
Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:How am I doing?
Ooo, i really wouldn't chance using fresh tap water, not unless the filter pad was thick, i mean thick with mulm (thats poo you the rest of us).
Anyway the best time to do it is when you do a water change, sure you have a bucket of tank water right there.....rinse out the sponge.
Finally, you don't have to get all the dirt out of the sponge, you need to keep some remember.

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09 Jan 2008 01:01 #7 by Avonmore (Pat Cullen)
Valerie, I gave the tank a 50% water change last night and the ammonia is back to 0.20 tonite. Not feed the fish since. I noticed that a lot of stuff floated out of the filter when I re-filled the tank and is now floating on top. Looks like dust. Is that normal?

Pat

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09 Jan 2008 09:37 #8 by Peter OB (Peter O'Brien)
Pat,

I wouldn't worry about the \"dust\" that came out of the filter. It is most likely dirt/food that has not been broken down.

Don't go anywhere near your filter for a month or longer, even if you clean it in tank water at this stage it will slow down the cycling process.

Do not ever rinse your filter media under the tank, this cannot be stressed enough. I only know one person that does that, the reason he does it is that he has about 5 or 6 filters in a tank, so he cleans one a month under the tap as he has the rest doing the work in the meantime.

As Didi said, get some filter media from an established tank. This is the best way to kick-start the tank.

Best of luck and keep the questions coming.

Peter.

Smoke me a Kipper, I’ll be back for breakfast.

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09 Jan 2008 09:40 #9 by Didihno (Didihno)
Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:How am I doing?
Jewel internal filter was it? Rubbish IMO, but some people like them.
Personally I'd get a good external and even a good internal and remove the whole Jewel case.
I always found that the jewel pumps are underpowered and never agitate the surface water enough.

Anyway its just dirt from the filter. If you have proper surface agitation it will eventually sink and sucked back into the filter.
Or you could gather it with a net, or some people use kitchen towel lightly dragged on the surface.
Make sure though that something is breaking the surface, either a stream of bubbles or the 'jet' from the jewel pump.

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09 Jan 2008 10:31 - 09 Jan 2008 12:07 #10 by S180de (S180de)
Replied by S180de (S180de) on topic Re:How am I doing?
well, the vast majority of bacteria that you loose when washing you filter pads are washed away together with all the dirt that goes down the drain - independent of using tap or tank water. in over 10 years so far I never had any problem with using COLD tap water for rinsing filter pads (quick washes these are, well under 1 min to keep enough dirt in the filter material). in a well established tank the majority of baterial biomass will be found in the ground/gravel (+ some in the water body) anyways (when thinking of a standard tank where the gravel volume exceeds the filter volume several times). but I understand the concerns of the other posters. just do whatever you feel is the best for you. better safe than sorry etc, etc...

Avonmore, keep up the water changes and don't feed the fish (how many do you have in the tank?). you should be fine in a few days I guess. the stuff coming out of the filter indeed might be dust/dirt. wouldn't worry about that for the moment.
Last edit: 09 Jan 2008 12:07 by darragh (Darragh Sherwin). Reason: Remove inappropriate swear word

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09 Jan 2008 14:17 #11 by Avonmore (Pat Cullen)
Thanks guys for all the advise. I was told that I'd have to change the top filter (the White one) every week. ie. dump and replace it. Does this still apply or would I be throwing away my good bacteria?

Pat

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09 Jan 2008 16:36 #12 by S180de (S180de)
Replied by S180de (S180de) on topic Re:How am I doing?
NOOO!!! keep it! a lot of good stuff in there, only start changing it once your tank has established and the dirt in the white pad starts reducing the filter power.
if you want to change them later its also cheaper to just use the synthetic filling material of those cheap pillows you get every now and then at Aldi, Lidl or Dunnes home. just make sure the filling does not contain cotton. They cost a fiver and a pillowfilling will last you for years.

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09 Jan 2008 17:03 #13 by Peter OB (Peter O'Brien)
As far as i know the top filter pad is to polish off the water and to make the water a bit clearer, but i'm sure it still has some bacteria in it. Leave it be for the time being as every little helps.

After a few weeks you can start replacing it as often as you like.

When I had the jewel filter I never replaced it as it just seemed like a scam to get you to buy more pads every few weeks, I never saw a noticable different in the clarity of the water with a new pad.

Smoke me a Kipper, I’ll be back for breakfast.

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09 Jan 2008 19:06 #14 by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods)
Personally i think the white pad is in the wrong position grabs all the dirt not polish and can clog up the works wash it in tank water once a week replace once a month have to say i agree with Didihno the filter is rubbish terrible design and i would change it when you can

Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods

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09 Jan 2008 20:13 #15 by Avonmore (Pat Cullen)
Cheers guys. I will get an external filter as it seems to be the way to go. Any suggestions on type? I do have a big filter that I had on a pond but not in use anymore, hozelock i think, I don't suppose that would work on my tank? No pump but has a UV light anyway I'll wait till the tank is cycled and I'm ready to stock it with aquascape and fish. Would I be aswell to do the aquascape when the tank is cycled or can I get started now. Itching to get at it, getting bored looking at my naked tank. Any suggestions on aquascape? do's and don't. I do have some great bog oak and drift wood but after posting a previous question on bog oak, i think it would create only problems for this novice. I think I will go with a community tank as it seems to the easiest to manage for a beginer. But open to ideas. by the way the tank is a Jewel 240.
Thanks again for all your advise, its all getting taking on board.

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09 Jan 2008 21:30 #16 by nomad (pat murphy)
Hi,looking for an answer to a question please ???
I have to totally strip down my trop tank for replacement and the external filter will not be running while i,m doing it.How long roughly could i leave it before the bacteria began to die off ??? thanks.....

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10 Jan 2008 01:42 #17 by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
I've heard that the bacteria will start to break down after three hours with no water movement. Hence in the past when I've had to break down a tank for a few hours, I would connect the output to the input and leave the external run on a loop with only the water that it is holding. Hope this helps.

Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!

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10 Jan 2008 09:44 #18 by S180de (S180de)
Replied by S180de (S180de) on topic Re:How am I doing?
juwel 240 filter: have one myself, never had any problem with it. I'd leave it in there for the moment until everything is running smoothly and see after a few month whether you are happy with it or not.

nomad and filter bacteria: true, they may start dying without water movement after a few hours. try to avoid anoxic conditions (lack of oxygen). e.g. you can take the filter pads out, let the water drip into a sink and your filter pads (still moist though) should be fine even for a few days as enough air oxygen is around.

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10 Jan 2008 10:35 #19 by nomad (pat murphy)
Tanks-Alot...Tanks for that idea :) 3 hours should be ample time,i thought it might have been less,tanks again :)
S180de....interesting replyand usefull too but dont think the \"other half \"would appreciate the sink being taken over for long,tanks too :) ....

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10 Jan 2008 11:40 #20 by Processor (Niall O'Leary)
Your doing ok Avonmore but just try to leave the filter alone for a while and it will do the work for you. An external running with the internal is a good idea if you can afford it but there is no rush. Don't bother cleaning anything in the filter for 2 or 3 months and that's only if you feel you absolutely have to. The exception here is the white floss and only if it is black with gunk.
I too have a Rio 240 with the original internal and an external and have had no problems in 2 years since it cycled.

I was under the impression that the white filter floss is for removing the visible debris from the tank and the black carbon sponge does the polising. Anyhow I have not bothered to change anything in the last year except for the white floss once every few weeks and my water is lovely.

Keep testing and dechlorinating your water BEFORE it goes into the tank during your water changes. I think you'd be ok with 20% to 25% max changes to keep the ammonia levels down.
After ammonia you will get Nitrite levels and then Nitrate at which stage your just about cycled.

Remember that all of these post are our personal opinions and what works for us and as you can see what some people do is completely different to others so read everything and do the average of what we do. You'll find you end up doing whats right for you in the end.

Processor.

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10 Jan 2008 18:44 #21 by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
Processor wrote:

Remember that all of these post are our personal opinions and what works for us and as you can see what some people do is completely different to others so read everything and do the average of what we do. You'll find you end up doing whats right for you in the end.

Processor.


Marvelous quote

Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!

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11 Jan 2008 00:16 #22 by Avonmore (Pat Cullen)
Thanks Processor for the tips and info. greatly appreciate you guys time and expirence.

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12 Jan 2008 11:19 #23 by Processor (Niall O'Leary)
No problem Avonmore only glad I can help.
I consider this a privilige to be in a position to give advice cos I was -and still am -constantly asking questions here.So it makes a change for me.But then thats what the forum is here for.

As for the 'Marvelous quote' tanks_alot...thank you, I suppose we all have learned and observed a thing or two over the last few weeks.

Processor.

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18 Jan 2008 00:33 #24 by Avonmore (Pat Cullen)
Hi
Just an update on my tank. We are just over 3 week set up now. Since I last posted I had white spot on the fish so I'm in the process of treating it and things look ok at the mo. I have the carbon fiter out and the temp is now up to 30c and using interpet white spot treatment, doing exactly as it says on the
tin.. The water quality in now, Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate about 2 or 3 on the colour card, Ph 7.4.

So guys how am I doing now?

Pat
P.S thanks to all for your advise

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