Iwagumi (scrapped). 30L nano (start)

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13 Nov 2013 20:49 - 06 Apr 2014 20:43 #1 by Lauris (Lauris)
Hi Everyone!
So as this is more like a photography section I will try to update this journal with my new project progress pictures as much as possible. So the plan is simple enough - Iwagumi inspired style. This is my 1st attempt
of doing things in correct order or in other words - Proper Prior Planning Prevents P*ss Port Performance.
So I'll try to let yous take a closer look into my project and DSM (Dry Start Method)

Tech. specifications -
Capacity: 125L
Filtration: JBL e1501 (1400l/h)
Light: Bulbs: 2 x 28w, 1 x 34w T5's
Co2: 2.3kg tank with selenoid valve,
external ceramic reactor
Heating: External



Hardscape -
Dragon Rocks
ADA Amazon soil 18L + 3L powder



So for about 8 weeks tank was with no plants in.. had a time to move things around..








So this is what I ended up with..


As this project Kicks Off with DSM (dry start method) it will be with no water for 8-12 weeks.... 4-5 weeks (as advised by one wise man)





This is now 2 weeks since planted.
Planted with:
Cuba (Hemianthus Callitrichoides) + Glosso (Glossostigma elatinoides)
Lights ON for 12 hours in total. 12PM - 12AM
2x24w bulbs from 12PM - 9PM
1x34w bulb from 7PM - 12AM
Spraying 2 x a day with RO. "pumping" out water when
too much at lover levels of the scape.
Leaving unsealed with cover open once for 1 hour (+/-)
and once for 15 min (+/-).

12DAY progress photos:



Eleocharis Acicularis - REMOVED as it is not suitable for my project


And few Close-Ups for now..








And in full:


So far things are going well. No melting or dried leaves yet.
Thank you for your attention and I'll keep this one updated!

p.s. ohh..jep..I have a plan to stock it. It will be one type of schooling fishes (did not decide yet
which ones - possibly Rummy Nose Tetras) and will have a bunch of shrimps. :silly:

I am planted!
Last edit: 06 Apr 2014 20:43 by Lauris (Lauris).

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13 Nov 2013 21:56 #2 by Gonefishy (Brian oneill)
Great post...it's a great layout and plants are doing so well already...nice one and I'm looking forward to seeing it progress...

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13 Nov 2013 22:47 #3 by LemonJelly (Johnny Cowley)
it's an interesting project and an interesting method. what are the advantages of doing it this way?

"The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life; your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you.They're freeing your soul."

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13 Nov 2013 23:32 #4 by alan61979 (Alan)
Great post, very detailed. Will be keeping an eye on this.

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13 Nov 2013 23:48 #5 by Lauris (Lauris)

LemonJelly wrote: it's an interesting project and an interesting method. what are the advantages of doing it this way?


Thanks!

The advantage is to let the Cuba (and not only) stabilize the rooting system to form in strong and nice carpet
afterwards. As Cuba has very tiny roots (when just out from the pot) it's not impossible but nearly impossible
to plant it and flood the tank without losing any of it. A lots of tiny runners will just float after the tank
filled with water. sure you can plant it in big pieces with leaving the mineral sponge on the roots but the
growth will be much slower and it wont form in one nice piece of carpet. This method gives you an option to
separate even the tiniest runner of the pot and plant it without doubts of loosing it. And there is no
possibility of algae while you starting dry :silly:

I am planted!

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13 Nov 2013 23:53 #6 by LemonJelly (Johnny Cowley)

Lauris wrote:

LemonJelly wrote: it's an interesting project and an interesting method. what are the advantages of doing it this way?


Thanks!

The advantage is to let the Cuba (and not only) stabilize the rooting system to form in strong and nice carpet
afterwards. As Cuba has very tiny roots (when just out from the pot) it's not impossible but nearly impossible
to plant it and flood the tank without losing any of it. A lots of tiny runners will just float after the tank
filled with water. sure you can plant it in big pieces with leaving the mineral sponge on the roots but the
growth will be much slower and it wont form in one nice piece of carpet. This method gives you an option to
separate even the tiniest runner of the pot and plant it without doubts of loosing it. And there is no
possibility of algae while you starting dry :silly:


now that you put it that way, it does make sense. with the best will in the world, placing tiny plants in a tank while it's even only partially filled is a headache :crazy:

"The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life; your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you.They're freeing your soul."

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14 Nov 2013 00:00 #7 by Lauris (Lauris)
yes! it is a headache. I've been there myself. lol
This one took 5 hours of my time just to plant 10 pots of Cuba
but I can tell you surely - really enjoyed every second of the
process as I knew this will not fail in 1-2 weeks. So far I was right.. :silly:

I am planted!

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14 Nov 2013 09:03 #8 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Great post and nice photography!

Andreas

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14 Nov 2013 12:20 #9 by christyg (Chris Geraghty)
Very interesting and very impressive

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14 Nov 2013 12:59 #10 by Stem12 (Stephen M)
Brilliant looking start, Please keep us updated with photos etc!!

SM

Juwel Vision 260-
20ltr-Fluval Spec-
19ltr-Fluval Chi-

Keep The Water Fresh-

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14 Nov 2013 19:16 #11 by bmcg38 (Brian McGrath)
looks great ! .. can i ask where you got the rock from ?

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14 Nov 2013 19:49 - 16 Nov 2013 08:47 #12 by Lauris (Lauris)

bmcg38 wrote: looks great ! .. can i ask where you got the rock from ?


"Accidentally" went to see Des in MaxiZoo Finglas on the day of the delivery. I was just shopping around and as usually I couldn't pass Finglas without quick poping-in to say "hello". I think I was a first one hands ON. There was about 25kg delivered of this type of rock. Took around 20kg's on the go. Id say I was lucky enough to grab such a beautiful peaces especially the big one I do love.

I am planted!
Last edit: 16 Nov 2013 08:47 by Lauris (Lauris).

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14 Nov 2013 21:28 #13 by bmcg38 (Brian McGrath)

Lauris wrote:

bmcg38 wrote: looks great ! .. can i ask where you got the rock from ?


"Accidentally" went to see Des in MaxiZoo finglas on the day of the delivery. I was just shopping aronud and as usually I couldn't pass Finglas without quick poping-in to say "hello". I think I was a first one hands ON. There was about 25kg delivered of this type of rock. Took around 20kg's on the go. Id say I was lucky enough to grab such a beautiful peaces especially the big one I do love.



haha , thanks .. you know what type of rock it is and was it expensive ?

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14 Nov 2013 22:11 - 16 Nov 2013 08:50 #14 by Lauris (Lauris)

bmcg38 wrote:

Lauris wrote:

bmcg38 wrote: looks great ! .. can i ask where you got the rock from ?


"Accidentally" went to see Des in MaxiZoo finglas on the day of the delivery. I was just shopping aronud and as usually I couldn't pass Finglas without quick poping-in to say "hello". I think I was a first one hands ON. There was about 25kg delivered of this type of rock. Took around 20kg's on the go. Id say I was lucky enough to grab such a beautiful peaces especially the big one I do love.



haha , thanks .. you know what type of rock it is and was it expensive ?


Dragon rocks. Paid for this ammount around 80 quit

P.s. from as far as I remember they were selling most of all rocks any type for 4.50€ in kilo

I am planted!
Last edit: 16 Nov 2013 08:50 by Lauris (Lauris).

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16 Nov 2013 22:16 #15 by Lauris (Lauris)
Tree planted :whistle:







Moss in my betta tank getting ready very well :cool:





So the moss will mainly cover the branches, will see.. from what I see it should look well and
feel well on the tree once tighten up. Hopefully my plan won't fail.

With re-planting some Cuba today to free the space for the tree noticed
how well the roots are doing - decided today - Tank will be flooded much sooner
Expectations set - 1st week of December :evil:

I am planted!

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17 Nov 2013 07:51 #16 by Santiagovalcarcel (Santiago)
Hi Lauris :

Great work and thanks a lot for providing progress updates !

Regards,

Santiago

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17 Nov 2013 12:13 #17 by bmcg38 (Brian McGrath)
is moss real easy to grow . i.e , just put it in the tank on some wood and leave it ?


I will be getting a fluval edge and like the look of moss but never used it before

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17 Nov 2013 12:31 #18 by Lauris (Lauris)

bmcg38 wrote: is moss real easy to grow . i.e , just put it in the tank on some wood and leave it ?


I will be getting a fluval edge and like the look of moss but never used it before


Mainy as any plant - when properly fertilized, with proper light amount and co2 or liquid carbon it will grow well and healthy. If you need more details just ask

I am planted!

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17 Nov 2013 22:56 #19 by Jim (Jim Lawlor)
This is great stuff - cant wait to see the tree with the moss on it!

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17 Nov 2013 23:45 #20 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Very nice Lauris.
It will looks fantastic once flooded.

If i am reading correctly this is your first time to use the dry start method.
IME once you flood the tank it is best to drain it all the next day and fill again.
This gets rid of a lot of the excess nutrients you get from the ADA Amazonia.
I also wipe down the glass after the first fill. You will get some dirt on the glass from the soil.

I also recommend a good tight trim about 2 weeks after flooding.
This cuts away some of the emersed growth stimulates new tight carpeting growth.

Good job and great photos.

P.S. the rock is Seiryu stone (mini landscape rock)

Darren.

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18 Nov 2013 00:17 - 18 Nov 2013 18:07 #21 by Lauris (Lauris)
Thanks Darren! I'll take your advice to bits.
My bad on missnamed rock type. Thanks
For heads Up! I'll do as suggested and
and I had a chat about this in seahorse aquariums
:) :).

And another quick update - tree planted with moss
(shame I forgot the name of it). Moved to my temp.tank.
Looks lil ugly for now but in few weeks should
be a bit more bushy.


I am planted!
Last edit: 18 Nov 2013 18:07 by Lauris (Lauris).

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18 Nov 2013 00:19 #22 by Lauris (Lauris)

Jim wrote: This is great stuff - cant wait to see the tree with the moss on it!


It didn't take too long for this. lol

I am planted!

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18 Nov 2013 00:24 #23 by Lauris (Lauris)
Btw, Darren, would you advise me please on the CO2 levels once the tank will be flooded? I know for first few weeks it should be not
suitable for any live stock but I'm not sure
of the amount of ppm to be delivered (or I'm wrong
on this?)

I am planted!

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18 Nov 2013 01:47 #24 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
The tree will look great. I recognize but forget the name of the moss.

Yes its best to not add live stock to soon. Give the plants time to settle in and any alterations you need to make to the tank can be done with out stress.
Also it will take a few weeks for the tank to mature.

Co2 I aim for 30ppm. I just use a drop checker to give me a rough idea and is usually all that is needed. If I have any issues with the tank like plant growth or algae the first thing I check is Co2. I test the Ph and KH to give me a Co2 level. There are plenty of charts on line.

From tanks 50ltr to 150ltr I start Co2 at 1 bubble per second (in the bubble counter) and increase/decrease as needed to achieve green in the drop checker.

I usually have Co2 come on 1-2 hours before the lights come on. Ideally 3 hours before to ensure Co2 saturation of the water.

If the HC Cuba gives off a lot of oxygen (not including just after trimming) it is to much Co2.
if it gives off oxygen late in the day, I find this perfect for both the HC and the glosso.

I meant to say earlier you were right to remove the grass. It would have spoiled the scape and broken your heart trying to control it.

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18 Nov 2013 16:54 #25 by derek (Derek Doyle)
Very well written/illustrated post lauris. And also great to read darrens advice, which as always is well explained.
When I started in fishkeeping the "old hands" would rarely share useful advice and the books were out of date and full of dud advice, and we pretty much had to pioneer our own way forward. So it is refreshing to see a top man like Darren take the time to share some of his expertise, esp as he works in the trade and must often get somewhat overfished lol.
I absolutely love the natural look of these planted tanks and am going to follow your progress with great interest and maybe get around to doing one for myself.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish

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18 Nov 2013 17:32 - 18 Nov 2013 17:35 #26 by Lauris (Lauris)
I doo see.. these days the information
communicated over the forums is is more helpful
as any book and more as it is based on many ppl
experiments, fails and successes

I do believe Darren is tha man in seahorse, right?
If so - I'm taking his advice from a very first
day I went in that shop (sorry if I'm wrong..).
A lots of very practical bits and pieces and
useful tips in this project are based on his
advice. And I'm very thankful to him as there are
few bits I wouldn't get away without.

And thank you Derek for following!

I am planted!
Last edit: 18 Nov 2013 17:35 by Lauris (Lauris).

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19 Nov 2013 00:17 #27 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)

Lauris wrote: I do believe Darren is the man in seahorse, right?

Yes. You caught me i am the same person.

I think its good to pass on information and give each other a leg up. Even if its just simple pitfalls that can be avoided.
After all it doesn't seem that long ago i was in Lauris's position and getting tips of Zig ( peter kirwin) on this forum.

Derek you should do a planted tank.
What Lauris said about enjoying taking 5 hours to plant one type of plant is true. It is very relaxing followed by a touch of achievement.
There is one tip i will give you in advance Derek. No internal filter on a planted tank. :laugh:

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19 Nov 2013 20:40 - 19 Nov 2013 20:48 #28 by Lauris (Lauris)
Darren, a bit of your advice needed again please..

I start to see more yellow'ish leaves on cuba and glosso. It is not overtaking but in spot-by-spot few are noticeable
It might be due to the tank has a lid (I don't have a hang on light system as my bulbs are
default ones in lid+additional ballast with 2 more bulbs as an option if needed). So because
the light source inside of the wrapped tank it dries much quicker (that's what I'm thinking of)
as expected. Might be I forced too much of light too..


Lights ON for 11 hours in total. 1PM - 12AM
2x28w T5 bulbs from 1PM - 8PM (very bright - 9+10k K)
1x34w T5 bulb from 7PM - 12AM (4k K)


I will try to set now for 11hrs of 1 x 34w bulb ONLY

But my concern is to not let it go too far to not make it worse

the other option is - to flood it now in 3 weeks since planted.. It might be a risk - it might be not.
Just when digged the hole for tree noticed how well the roots are doing. In 3 weeks
they were in about length of 1-1,2cm and all wrapped well around soil under

help needed please

I am planted!
Last edit: 19 Nov 2013 20:48 by Lauris (Lauris).

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19 Nov 2013 21:06 #29 by Lauris (Lauris)

platty252 wrote: IME once you flood the tank it is best to drain it all the next day and fill again.
This gets rid of a lot of the excess nutrients you get from the ADA Amazonia.


and another Q related to flooding..
Can I flood it with tap water only for a 1st time and then to use RO?
Also would it be OK to use TAP mixed with RO 50/50 or better only RO?

thanks!

I am planted!

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19 Nov 2013 23:56 #30 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
I don't think to much light is the issue here.

I have done this with a lot more light than you are using with no issues.
When a tank is full of water we have to be carful with the amount of light we use. But this is not the case when the tank is not full of water. Once the humidity is fairly high.

You can have up to 16 hours of light a day. Just give it some breaks. 4 hours of light 2 hours dark. You can keep this up over a 24 hour period.
This is a method employed by some commercial nurseries to maximize growth.
You don't have to use that here. You have enough light and enough hours of light.

I have experienced this before when I was misting the tank to much. This could be the problem.
In the first pictures you posted the water level is below the soil. Perfect.
But the picture with the tree included the water level is to high. This can lead to melting plants or mold.
I suggest keeping the water level low under the soil.

As you have noticed the plants have rooted in nicely. All going well it can be fine to flood after 2 weeks but I find 4 weeks a lot better.
The difference been you get more cover with the plants and to ensure they are all rooted.
You could flood now but I would wait.

The only reason I would be worried and flood now is if you got patches of plants melting in to mush.
I would remove these sections and flood.

RO or tap? That is hard to say. I don't know what your tap water is like.
If your water is very hard I would mix it with RO. Or just use RO with minerals added.
I use tap, but my water is very soft to start with. But I also sometimes use RO with JBL aquador.

You must realize the Amazonia soil can absorb some of the minerals from the water (like carbonates) so if its only a little bit hard you should be fine.

If you use tap water and it doesn't agree with the plants they will shrivel up. Its almost like the leaves curl. Then I would consider the RO option.

You could test the water before it goes in to the tank and test the tank water after 24 hours and you will see how the chemistry has changed. The soil is quite remarkable this way. It can change the water to suit the plants.

Just one more thing Lauris, don't panic. It will be fine.

Darren.

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